INT: What were the first few days with the camera like Alex?

AC: Well, I guess it was around Christmas time. I don’t like to read instruction manuals, I’m not that kind of person. So the first moments with it, just going shot-to-shot were super organic, and I figured out how different settings can mediate reality differently.

INT: So at what point did you realise you were particularly drawn to photographing Michael? What made him a good muse?

AC: Well he was there, firstly. He handed me my camera which I immediately turned around and pointed at him. But I also instantly noticed how, when I pointed the camera at Michael, there was no, like, changing of behaviour on his part, he seemed a little bit unflappable. Not feeling the need to smile.

INT: Michael, how did you feel in front of the camera? Did it take some getting used to or is it something that came naturally to you?

MN: Um, I don’t remember ever having a time when I resisted having my photo taken. There have been like maybe one or two moments that I can remember where I would specially tell Alex, ‘Don’t take a fucking picture of me right now’.

AC: But I do have those pictures.

MN: I think it felt pretty easeful from the beginning. He’s not going to ask me to do anything differently, every once in a while maybe like a slight adjustment. But I think really Alex is more interested in capturing whatever essence you’re experiencing in that moment. Maybe you remember differently Alex but I remember from the beginning I was pretty available to be looked at.

AC: Well you were making theatre, making performance – so, of course.

MN: When Alex started Brothers and Others, started photographing my family, he would bring out his camera around family events, and for a lot of them it was really difficult to avoid, you know, putting on a face. Alex takes very confronting, oftentimes, objectively, demeaning images of parents yelling at kids, or parents on iPhones or people drunk, things where it’s not the most flattering. But that’s exactly what’s happening.

AC: I think you were a good example in showing them that it’s best to not do anything. It’s much more simple than you think, just don’t change your behaviour.